UCM 001: Dr. Jeff Scholten – Mastering Communication of Your Report of Findings

Reading Time: 26 minutes

The Upper Cervical Marketing Podcast Episode One Show Notes:

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Episode One: Dr. Jeff Scholten

Dr. Davis:  Dr. Jeff Scholten is Clinic Director at the Vital Posture Clinic in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. He holds a Diplomate in Chiropractic Cranial Cervical Junction Procedures, the President of the International Chiropractic Association Council in Upper Cervical Care. He’s also the President of Upper Cervical Health Centers. He’s on the Board of the Upper Cervical Research Foundation and the National Upper Cervical Chiropractic Association. He’s one of the founders and organizers of the Upper Cervical Experience Event, and he was the ICA Council on Upper Cervical Care Chiropractor of the Year for 2015. Welcome Dr. Jeff!

Dr. Scholten:  Thank you Bill. Thanks for having me.

Building A Successful Practice

Dr. Davis:  Absolutely! Alright! So, Let’s get right into this. I want to start with your clinic. I know, you know you’ve been practicing now for what…10-12 years? Something like that?

Dr. Scholten:  2001, I started. I graduated in ‘01 and I started my own practice in early ’02.

Dr. Davis:  ’02, okay. And so, in those 13 years or so, you’ve grown a very healthy practice in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. You have several associates. You’ve trained a bunch of associates. Let’s talk first about your practice and because I think it’s a good context for everything else we’re going to talk about. So, let’s talk about, what does it mean to have a successful clinic to you? Where is your clinic at this point as far as the number of people that you’re seeing, the collections you’re doing and those types of things?

Dr. Scholten:  Well, it’s interesting, you know. Because when I came out into practice I had this perspective of just making sure that I gave really high-quality care. You know, taking care of each person one at a time, really personalizing the care. And so, when I came out, I thought everything that I did I wanted to do sustainably. And so, when I took an action I like it to have multiple positive objectives and I wanted it to be a sustainable action. And so, I did that and the first year wasn’t the easiest year. And so, as I consulted others and talked to them, I don’t necessarily suggest it to do it exactly how I did it. I did learn something along the way as well. And it’s probably better to grow a little bit faster. But the one thing that it allowed me to do is really concentrate on my procedures, make sure everything is stable. And so, in everything that I’m involved in, the critical thing for me is to build a big enough platform so that what you’re trying to build on top of that platform is able to be housed and supported, and I call that capacity.

And in early practice, you know, you don’t have any patients coming in. So, you gotta go and find them. Got to introduce yourself to the community, there’s lots of strategies about how to that. I did that very much on the professional side. I felt coming out of the Chiropractic Practice I’d look that a lot of Chiropractic procedures. I studied them. I tried to compare back to what I currently do which is NUCCA and see which one that I wanted to practice. I ended up of course… for me that NUCCA was the right approach and you know, I think the recognition that nobody is gonna be able to help anybody with everything drives a lot of what I do. And so, with NUCCA, it has clearly defined parameters as to when you’re needed and when you’re maybe have accomplished what you’re able to accomplish or what you wanted to accomplish.

And so, that drove me into the community to seek complimentary care professionals. And so, I was looking and trying to understand what people did because coming out at the Chiropractic College really we didn’t understand a lot of what other professions did. And I doubt people, you know the few patients that I had, I would ask them who the practitioners that they really enjoy and trying to connect with those people and some of them worked out really well and some of them I still have wonderful connections with to this day. And other ones, you know, they weren’t necessarily connections. And I’ve taught on that a number of times Bill and I know you’ve seen that. But, the idea is that you grow your practice and you want the freedom of being able to have enough people in your space financially that you can survive.

Right, that you can pay yourself. You can have a reasonable quality of life for your family and Chiropractic allows you to have that if you do it properly. You’re delivering value to the community in such a way that you have an exceptional quality of life yourself. And so, I’ve been lucky enough through the process of what I’ve done to really find myself at a position where my practice grew very sustainably and successfully. And after a couple of years I had a bit of a wait for first appointments. And, you know you’ll think, well that’s a wonderful thing and it truly is ‘cause it’s a great problem to have to deal with. But, it becomes a different part of the problem when you’re dealing with professional referrals to be able to get people in, in a timely manner, so that you’re not the person who can’t be seen; and therefore you lose your referral services.

And so, one of the things that I tried to do is I tried to bring in associates, because I felt I can’t see everybody but let’s bring on associates and let’s share what we’re doing here. And how eventually, potentially the freedom of being able to take time off and take a holiday. And not have it be as financially expensive as it was in the first few years. You know, when you take a week off and going on a holiday, the greatest cost actually in fact wasn’t actually the airline ticket and the holiday itself. It was a lost income for the practice when you’re the only hamster on the wheel.

Knowing Your Numbers and What They Mean

And so, the key is to replace yourself, of course. It’s really basic E-Myth Michael Gerber concepts. And so, you have to create your roles and you have to understand what your roles are. And you replace yourself and I have been lucky enough again to be successful in having associates over the years who have allowed me to do that. And right now, we have what I think is the most powerful type of a team in today’s Chiropractic environment, which is 3 clinicians and we have 5 support team members and we have a practice that as of my last year-end of July 31st 2015, $997,000 in collections. And now, it’s just a bit of a drop from a year before because we were in a transition period between associates. And so, that was really the majority of those collections were two practitioners. And you know, we have our third one who has come on and again he started in July 15th, and so he’s doing really well as well. And he’s able to come in and learn his craft, learn his trade in a practice that is able to supply him with new patients while he simultaneously tries to figure out his marketing strategies in getting out and growing his own practice within a practice. So, we have a lovely practice. It’s always funny to share numbers but I think that a lot of times people don’t share that information and so then they’re talking. The people who are listening to them speak don’t really understand what their practice looks like.

So, I’m happy to share from that perspective. We have a…we watch our metrics very closely. And our practice last month for example in October, 45% of the people that we saw came from professional referrals, 28% from internal referrals, 26% came from just us existing online. So, what you’re trying to help people do, Bill, a lot. So, we just exist. And so, people find us and then we had 1% come from marketing.

So, we aren’t much of a marketing practice but you know, we really work for professional referral angle and we have good internal referral pieces and then, it seems people find us as well. And so, that’s where they come from.

Our PVA is 30. Is this what you’re looking for Bill? Just to make sure?

Dr. Davis: Yeah, yeah. Keep going.

Dr. Scholten:  Okay, I’ll just go through with this. Our PVA is 30. And trust – to see somebody 30 times takes us close to three years. Our CVA is 2800. So, that’s the average that a person would spend if they start care in our practice. And our OVA is 86. So, that’s the average that people spent per visit here. Last month is the three of us has 32 new patients start. We had an 86% 1A conversion. And we checked that a few months earlier. So, compare the people who are new patients in August, because a lot of them have to wait a month or two to be able to get their first adjustment if they’re trying to see me. The associate doctors have the ability to get them a little faster. But there’s a little bit of wait for them as well. So, we have strategies for how to see acute people, which is 1-2 out of the 10 that we see new patient consults that is. And so, we get them in faster. So, these are all strategies that you work once you get to the point where maybe your services are in greater demand than your time allows. And so, we’ve created these procedures and they seem to be working really well for us. And we have a lovely practice here, getting to help a lot of people in our community.

Building Systems

Dr. Davis: Outstanding! So, you know, I just wanted to just look a little deeper in one thing you talked about, which is the importance of having systems. Right? And I’m a huge E-Myth fan Michael Gerber. And you know, it’s just, to be able to do the things that you’re able to do outside of your practice. I imagined you’ve been able to build in to your practice systems that can work whether you’re there or not. And so, could you talk a little bit more about that?

Dr. Scholten:  Absolutely. Yeah, a system is crucial and I was lucky enough at Palmer to get a leadership scholarship where we’re able to do a lot of work on leadership with other leaders or identified potential leaders in Palmer at that time. And so, we worked a lot on things like that. And one of the things that we read was E-Myth by Michael Gerber. And you know, it’s interesting that you said that I’m involved right now with UCHC. My first involvement with UCHC was going to speak to them on professional referrals in Atlanta. And one of the things that really attracted me to go to speak to that group at that time, this was a number of years ago, was that they had Michael Gerber coming in and he was going to be speaking in advance to me. So, he spoke for three hours and then I spoke for one hour after him and it’s a little intimidating to follow him but it was wonderful to have a guy like that open for me at that time in my career. So, that was fun. That was a lot of fun. But he really influenced me with all the idea between being an entrepreneur, developer of things, a creator of things, a visionary of what might happen and then being the manager in your practice, and also being the technician. My chart of accounts works that way. In fact, I have pieces of my business that are me as an owner, pieces that are me as a clinic director and pieces that are me as an associate; and I share different parts of that and have the ability to share those different parts with different people.

And so, systems are crucial and basically what needs to happen is that if you don’t have a system for every single thing that you do in your office, and it doesn’t have to be that that system is non-flexible. So, a lot of our systems, they’re created, they’re scripting associated with it but that scripting can be altered. There’s information that somebody might need that somebody with different personality type – an analytical versus a driver for instance wouldn’t want, you know.

Customizing Your Report of Findings Based on the Patient

As an example, when I do my report of findings, I start out and say,

“okay, so if a zero was I’ve already talked to much and a ten is teach me everything you know. How much do you want to know about what’s going on with yourself.”

And so then, they tell me, uhh we’re both professionals I don’t need to know much. Tell me the basics or no, please I want to know everything, tell me everything. And so, you know, then I say okay, perfect. I’ll try to zone in on that. And if I tell you too much, you’ll try to glaze your eyes over and I’ll try to pick up on non-verbal.

So, it’s kind of about matching the patient and so systems when they’re too non-flexible, right, and unadaptable then there are problems as well. So, as you’re making systems, be cautious about overdoing it in terms of the rigor of it but being very rigorous in terms of having something for everything.

In our practice, every week we dedicate on Thursday mornings 25 minutes to what we term “perfect practice,” This is an idea again that Dr. Rickman shared when he was at Palmer with us and in this leadership group, he said, a friend of his was opening a restaurant and before the restaurant was opened, he invited them over to see what was going to happen. And then the days before, the three days previous to that, they had live, they were live. So, there were no people sitting in the seats and yet they were running around and bustling as thought they were. As though they were able to handle the capacity of the people that they saw themselves handling. And so, they were getting themselves ready for it.

And that would be my advice for new practitioners. When you’re ready to go, make sure you could visualize and understand what would it be like when you hit the capacity that you desire? Because a lot of the times, people will have these desires that are completely not able to be managed at a level that they’re currently at, in terms of their procedures, in terms of their mindset, in terms of their even hours of their operation at times. They aren’t able to do what they want to do.

And so, first things first, of course, is to understand what you’re trying to do, how much energy willing to put into it, what you want it to look like in the end when it’s all done. And then you start to put strategies in place and procedures in place so that that happens. These procedures are crucial.

Dr. Davis: Awesome! Perfect! That question that you gave was gold at being able to identify that type of person you’re talking to in the report of findings. I’ve never heard that way before but that, repeat that again. What is the question that you used in order to connect what type of person you’re speaking to in the Report off Findings.

Dr. Scholten: Yeah! So, we sit down and you know, my Report of Findings are a little different maybe than other people’s. We do a new patient consultation and then in our new patient consultation, we’re checking a whole range of things like binocular vision, feet and teeth and  posture and gait analysis, and motion static palpation. You know, all these ranges of motion, lots of stuff. And then we do a myovision, and we do blood pressure, we do balance. We do just a ton on that initial assessment. You know, and it’s only a hundred bucks. They come in. It’s about an hour of their time, half an hour of my time. We assess them and they sit down. I tell them what’s going on. I tell them what I proposed to do about it. And see if they want me to do that. And so then, they choose to start. And so then, I’ll come in for their first adjustment visit. And again, if they’re acute versus chronic we have them in different places. But maybe it’s even two months later at this point that they’re coming back to me. And so, when they’re coming back again, I’m verifying some of the factors. Taking the pre-NUCCA x-rays, analyzing those as their having other testing done.

We do APDMs right now, which is accelerometers and gyroscope on the ankles, wrist, chest and waist to see how people move and walk; and we do thermal scans, EMG, and we check a bunch of things again. And they read a bunch of stuff while I’m analyzing the X-rays. Then, I adjust them and recheck a bunch of stuff and then post X-ray them and analyzes X-rays. And then maybe going and adjust more if I need to re-X-ray again.

After all of that is done, and that’s just basic NUCCA procedure. And, after all of that is done, then I bring them in and that’s when I do the Report of Findings. So, it’s all done. We have the pre-posture. We have a post-posture. We have all of these bits of information to share with them, and I use Kerry Johnson’s chiro-correction. It’s just amazing in terms of patient education before I show them their own X-rays.

But we sit down at my desk in my office and I’m about to go over everything with them. I say okay, before we get started here, what I need to know is what you want to know?

And so, let’s do a scale of 0-10, with 0 being I’ve already talked too much and I’ve told you too much or a 10 being teach me everything you know so that I can do NUCCA too. And so, where are you on that scale? And they’ll tell me where they are. And then after they tell me, I say okay perfect. I’m going to try to match that and if you want more information just ask questions and if I’ve given you too much information, try to glaze your eyes over a little bit. And I’ll try to pick-up on the non-verbal.

That’s what I say.

Dr. Davis: That’s great! That is great! Yeah! I mean, so frequently, in practice we’re telling patients things that they don’t need to know. Right? We’re going beyond what’s necessary. Right. They got it 10 minutes ago. And we’re continuing to beat it into their heads. And so, just connecting with the type of person that they are, I think it’s just, that’s just gold.

Dr. Scholten: It’s so key. You know, and it’s interesting because when you look at even a set of paper work that’s fill out by hand, if that’s how they’re doing it because for us we are always doing practice-based research in at different times and different things going on, but you know, whenever they come in, they always fill out one sheet of paper. You know, with some crucial information that people tend not to like to put online. And so, they come in and they do that information. You can always tell, just by looking that one sheet of paper what their style is. I mean, are their writing really, really quickly? And they’re missing information and you know. Or is their handwriting completely meticulous? And you know, when you have somebody who has all these information in this one piece of paper with meticulous handwriting, just know they’re analytical. Know they want the small details. Just hit them with it in advance. You know, and if when somebody is like crossed in three things and leaving things blank. And you know, don’t tell them anything. Just get them in and get them out. You know, the more you talk the less likely they’re going to start because you’re annoying them. Right?

So, let’s not annoy people. Let’s not be weird. Right? And let’s make sure we match the person in that – I’ll tell you man, social styles, you know, lead tests – you know, leader, expressive, analytical, or dedicated is one way. And then there’s the base social styles from the 70’s which I learned way back – you know, which is sort of driver, expressive, again analytical and amiable. None of those dictates success. Right? It doesn’t matter what your social style is. The key is your ability to much other people’s social styles and move in between social styles effortlessly. More effortlessly you can do that and match the community you’re in at the moment or the energy you’re in at the moment.

Then, the more successful you are at giving that person a great experience with you. And that’s something that I think sometimes we forget as we’re working so hard to make the patient understand what we want to share with them. We have it backwards. We need to share with them what they want to understand. And you know, you could tell them the whole chiropractic story on their first visit. And maybe that works for you. And maybe that works for the people that you’re seeing. Or maybe it drives so many people away, that you’re not sure why they don’t come back anymore.

And you know, you just tell them the truth. Right? But the truth is that people really don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care. And you got to put the first things relative to this stuff first. And it’s really about do they have a problem? Do you think you can help them? Do they want you to try to help them? And if they do, you go forward and you try to help them.

And be honest with them when you don’t think that they’re responding the way you expect them to respond? I just had a guy complete his initial periodic care. And in our initial periodic care, we do a reassessment at seven weeks. And this is the third guy in 14 years who at the end of seven weeks is feeling worse than he did before he started.  He was pretty bad. He’s had a problem forever. He’s got a big cranial cervical junction issue here like when he sneezes, you know his hands and legs go numb. This isn’t the run of the mill stuffs. We’re going to get MRIs and such. Now, you know, and look at where we are going.

But it was interesting at the end of his initial periodic care, we always, at week six, send him home with some paper work and said, “Would you like to continue care?” If so, how often do you think you should be checked? So, he could see his posture shift after the adjustment. He wants his posture to be balanced. He knows he should not be standing on his right leg more than his left leg, which is what he does when he’s misaligned.

But on his paper work he said, ‘No, I want to keep coming in until it’s fixed, and I think I should continue to come in weekly.” Right? And I’m like, “No! You got to take a two-month break. We’re going to do some advance diagnostics here. We need to understand stuff. We’re going to see if this goes away back to the pre-level, which was still really bad.” Right?

His SF-36 when he started, it was like at 40 and now it’s like at 25. Right? So, it’s still bad before. For those who don’t know, it should be at a 100. Right? And the US average is 64. And so, that’s not great. You don’t want to be average. But so he was bad at the start. He’s just a second year university kid. Great kid but the thing is if you educate them on what you’re trying to do with them, and they’re here to – he wants his arms and legs not to go numb. You know what I mean?  His nose – his nose goes numb, right? So, these are issues obviously that we need to identify and give him the dignity of the diagnosis that Scott Rosa talks about. And we’ll work down that and we will move with this guy. But, for him he just want to keep coming in.

For me, as a clinician, it’s important to recognize this isn’t normal behavior. And  we need to figure out what’s going on. And so, we need to take care of these people. You know, Bob Brooks with his taking care of people. That’s number one. Let’s take care of these people.

Dr. Davis: Yeah! You know, I spoke with Dr. Josh Wagner last year and he has something that he talks about where he says, you know, ‘If you help people to understand that you want what they want, it’s going to make all the difference in the way that you can connect with them and the way that they understand that you’re actually in this for them. Right? That you’re in this to help them and help them to accomplish the things that they’re looking to do. Like you said, you know, he wants the numbness in his hands to go away. Right? But he trusts you and he understands that you’re helping him in any way that you can. Even if he’s getting worse like you said.

Connecting Your Goals to Your Team’s Goals

Dr. Scholten: Right. And we’re going to figure it out together, him and I, you know. We’re going to get through this. And there’s a variety of things that we’ve already discovered that we knew were going on in advance that we have been working on. But you know, one of the biggest challenges is not being on the same page as each other. Whether it’s a patient that wants something you don’t deliver and you’re not willing to tell them or whether it’s a staff member, a team member. You know, you have to be on the same page. It’s so important. In my practice, we have profit sharing, you know. I remember, a couple of years into practice, I went to NUCCA conference, came back.  I was still on my own. I didn’t have an associate yet. And I get back and it was the busiest week we’d ever had. At a Friday, I just felt so great about it. And we’re having an end of the day meeting. How’s next week looking, and my, one of my two team members at that time, she said, ‘Uh, it’s better next week.’ So, what do you mean? How can it be better? Like, it’s awesome this week. Right? This is great! And so, she’s like, ‘well, it’s not as busy.’

Dr. Davis: ouch.

Dr. Scholten: And so, I realized that the point is, if I was busier then my overhead was the knot I was trying to correct. And the busier I was, really increase my profit margin. But for her, at an hourly wage, the busier she was, decrease her dollar per energy expenditure. So, we had to switch that. And what we do is now, we have four bonus levels that we give out based on a monthly basis. Based on how that month was. And we understand that there’s a certain percentage number of your revenue in the end of the day that should go to your employees. And we try to make sure that that goes to those people in a way that encourages them. So they know if they’re busy on the day after working the phones hard and they’re moving people around and they’re running, running, running that they’re actually getting paid more per minute of doing that? Than if they’re just sitting there playing solitaire on the computer. Right?

Dr. Davis: Right. Right.

Dr. Scholten: So, that’s the key to get these procedures in place so that everything is lining up. So whether it’s your patients or your team, we all have to be moving towards the same end goal.

Helping Upper Cervical Grow Worldwide

Dr. Davis: Absolutely. Awesome. Yeah, that’s also one. And let’s shift gears a bit. Let’s talk about a way that you’re connecting with doctors, it’s through the Upper Cervical Health Centers and being able to help doctors in a lot of different ways through that organization. And so, to talk about the Upper Cervical Health Centers, why you got involved and what are some of the ways that doctors can be helped through that organization?

Dr. Scholten: Well, I’ll tell you Bill, once you are in practice for a little while as you’ve been and you start helping people and you kind of make – you get to the point where you’re helping as many people as you can personally help. Right? Then you bring in associates and you’re helping.  You know, you’re trying to help them, help people. You know, at a certain point at least for me I look around and I’m like, ‘Man, we have a lot of chiropractors out there that are Upper Cervical, that are maybe going out of business or aren’t doing as well as they should be doing or aren’t paying the bills well and are confused and are listening to practice management for general chiropractors as opposed to Upper Cervical Chiropractors.

And you know, like I said, my PVA of 30 takes a few years to hit if you are in our practice under normal scheduling, average scheduling. And you know, and that’s because we don’t see people a lot. And that’s it. That’s a real benefit for people like, you know, if you’re coming half an hour to an appointment and then sitting around for 20 minutes and getting adjusted and resting for a little while and leaving. You know, that’s like – that’s a solid hour out of your day. Maybe even more. And people are busy. And so, seeing people less often, charging a little bit more money for but seeing them less often. It’s a great strategy and that’s why our OVA is 86 as opposed to the average of 40 or 50. And you know, so if I see 200 patient’s visit in a week, you know, and somebody has an OVA of 43, let’s say. Then, they need to see 400 to match my 200. And so, you can really slow down and give the quality, and it just depends what the niche is. But as you move outside of that, then, for me at least I look at Upper Cervical in terms of silos. And I’m trying to move them forward on a variety of fronts. And so, I want to contribute positively to our profession.

And so, within NUCCA, I’ve been involved for a long time with NUCCA and I think I brought a lot to NUCCA as a member of Board of Directors for more than a decade. I’ve been involved with research through UCRF, and my passion is practice-based research. And you know, I’ve got in a public grant for that, stewarded that to publication. Will be published in I believe of April 2016 on this most recent article in the Journal of Canadian Chiropractic Association. Research is really so important to me. The academic and political, the Upper Cervical Councils as part of the ICA, are really important to chiropractors come together and support the Upper Cervical Council.  I mean, the cost of the membership is almost nothing at $170 bucks a year. You get your listing, of course, but mostly you’re just contributing to furthering Upper Cervical.

The academic part which is the diplomate, as part of the Upper Cervical Council, one of the things we do is we put on the diplomate. And so, we’re starting the second round of the diplomate in March. We also have a learning hub you can access through the Upper Cervical Council’s website, which is ICAuppercervical.com. And you can access through there if you are a member. And you can get in there and we have a clearing house base.  They’re not clearing house – that’s the wrong word. We have an area where we keep a tremendous amount of data. And we’re just building it. You know, the Upper Cervical Council is very new. But we’re building this information in there so that – you know if you see a cool study, instead of putting on Facebook and have it go away, you can put it in there. You can hashtag it. People can search it down the road. You can find everything you want Upper Cervical. We have an intro to Upper Cervical for students. We want the clubs to be able to have their information in the centralized location, so that everybody doesn’t have to start again. Right? It’s standing on each other’s shoulders.  That’s the key here. So, from a council perspective, we do the diplomate and we do education of the public and education of the profession and relative to Upper Cervical. So, if you’re an Upper Cervical doctor and you want Upper Cervical out there and you want to collaborate and you believe that the cloistering of Upper Cervical purely in technique groups isn’t the way to do that. But, support your technique group and support the council as we attempt to continue this uncloistering and this collaborative spirit of Upper Cervical.

So then, of course now we get into the business of Upper Cervical and there really isn’t the silo for that. I worked with Dr. Lenarz for a long time with TCW and learned a ton from him and really enjoyed my time with them and continue to.

We worked together quite a bit on a variety of things and the Upper Cervical experience being one of them. But you know, he’s kind of slow down on the TCW front and UCHC at that same time asked me to – I do consulting with the chiropractors. And so UCHC asked me to come on and help them out. They’ve been a franchise model. That wasn’t really working well for them anymore. And so, they wanted to see, you know, is there a way that this company could still be successful in bringing value to Upper Cervical. The idea was, in the beginning of course that Upper Cervical chiropractors alone, you know, they can do certain amount that can really help the community. But, if they came together, then then maybe changed the world. And so, we want to come together on this political side, on this academic side. We want to come together on the business side. And that’s where UCHC fits in. It’s about the business of Upper Cervical. It’s a member-based organization. We want to provide benefits to the members and we’re doing that right now. We’ve got a great website called Upper Cervical Care. You get your listing on there of course. Even at the very most basic memberships.

And then, beyond there it’s kind of the way I would describe it is that the basic affiliate, there’s basically four ways you can interface with UCHC. The basic affiliate is somebody who is in the stands, you know is watching and participating and cheering. And you know, yeah, we believe that we should be working on the business of Upper Cervical, so I’m going to support that. I’m going to get a little bit return on my investment here with the listing with some communications, with some access to Facebook conversation about business and you got to play a little bit. And then if you got into the enhance level. Now, you’re kind of on the sidelines. You’re interacting but you’re interacting a little less than if you’re actually fully engaged affiliate or a member which we have boot camps and we have peer-based coaching, which we called ‘Mastermind Circles’ for once a month you mastermind on the business of Upper Cervical with somebody else. And we have a bunch of programs. So, we continue to develop more and more programs. And the key is, as we develop this value and it continues to develop as the people who were involved with UCHC are so dedicated to bringing Upper Cervical to the world and to helping each other in their own business of Upper Cervical Chiropractic – and so, that’s what we’re doing. And when we get that complete where we have a really, really strong foundation with a whole range of people in it. The next step, because there is still work that I’m doing every day, yesterday, the day before, you know, last night at home. I’m just moving this UCHC forward.

But once we get that in a solid place, which we’re very close now. We’ll continue to, of course, develop that. But the idea down the road, I want to create a situation where there’s a proper model, which we have created theoretically right now – where chiropractors can invest in chiropractic practices.

So, right now, one of the biggest challenges is that the chiropractor comes out into the world and they graduate, they want to be an Upper Cervical chiropractor. Where do they train? Do they find a good landing ground for training? Is there a good system for incubating them to become excellent practitioners? Is there a good system for understanding their social styles and understanding if they would prefer to be a follower or a leader? And if they are going to be a leader, how are we going to help them stay with us?

Right now, the model is that you come out, practice and maybe you find somebody to mentor you. And then, if you really – this is one model, a successful one. If you’re really a great associate, then maybe we’re going to put you in another practice, and we’re going to finance it, and you’re going to buy that back from me after a few years. And then, okay, I’ll do that again. And that works really well for people. But what happens if we could build, you could build your practice within the practice and you could recapitalize the value of the practice you built within that practice as you move into a new practice. And during that time, we understood you. We understood you’re kind of like your baseball card, right? What’s your hitting average? What you’re screened start ratios? What’s your ability to bring people into the practice? Are you a rainmaker or are you a technician? How should you fit? If we could understand that as you incubate it and grew your skill over a two or three year period, then we could create a situation that instead of you or me, Bill, investing a hundred or hundred-fifty thousand and that takes to start a practice. Maybe we could have 100 people invest $1000 and the model for that exists, and it needs a mother ship; and we want UCHC to eventually be the mothership, so that we can spread Upper Cervical chiropractic through Europe, through Asia, through Australia, through South America. You know, being involved with Greg, David who are Australians who were involved with this and you know, Thad and Ray who started the whole thing. And all the other people at UCHC is just – has been a real privilege. It has been now a year and two months. So, 14 months I’ve been involved; and it just gets more and more fun, just sort of playing in that business area.

Dr. Davis: Really cool! So, Jeff you mentioned the whole bunch of things. Just let our audience know where we are going to put all of these in the show notes. So, if you go to uppercervicalmarketing.com/episode1, the number 1, so episode number 1. And we’ll have links to, you know, everything that we just talked – that Jeff just talked about. So, the Upper Cervical Health Centers and the ICA Council and Upper Cervical Care and everything that we’re going to talk about next as well. So, people don’t have to try to write down all these links. You can just go to the show notes. You can get the link up to all those different things. And so, I wanted to finish up with one last event that’s coming up that’s going to bring all these together and that’s the Upper Cervical Experience. We’re doing the Second Annual Upper Cervical Experience in Orlando in February. I believe, it’s February 11th through the 13th and just talk about that. Why do Upper Cervical doctors need to be there? What’s the benefit for them, for their practice for Upper Cervical as a whole?

Dr. Scholten: Well again, this thing I go to NUCCA conferences semi-annually and somebody…with my friends go to the Blair Conference. They go to their Knee-chest Conferences. You know, maybe they don’t have a conference that they go to. We need to come together on an annual basis to share, to have a camaraderie, to allow for the collaboration, to make sure that the walls aren’t being built or they’re breaking down. It’s so crucial. It’s so easy to have your feelings hurt or to not get along with somebody and  concentrate on the slight differences as opposed to the things that are similar. And you know, it’s important as Upper Cervical Chiropractors as we work on our practices or on our different perspectives relative to technique or research or other business – it’s really, really important that we come together annually and have a trade show. Have a place where people can show up and see what’s new and see what’s interesting and play with each other and have conversations. And for me the interlude is so crucial at these places because you can spend time with your colleagues and just like your chiropractic college when when you go through and you kind of feel that sense of camaraderie. That’s the experience was like last year. And that’s what the experience is going to be like I hope this year and in future years. Upper Cervical needs a place that we can all come together and we can support each other, and we can grow together. And so, we’re going to have information on practice building. We’re going to have updates on current and just cutting edge research. We got a CA track going on that just looks awesome. So, your chiropractic assistants are going to be able to get trained. We’re about all of the different pieces of Upper Cervical from a philosophical of the why, to the what, to the how. That’s the experience and there’s going to be a lot of time to play together and interlude between and after the conferences. It should just be a great weekend, happens to be the Sunday of Valentine’s Day. Right starts the Thursday, Friday and Saturday. Forty-eight hours conference before Valentine’s Day.

And so, we’re really focused on our love for our subset of the profession and the profession as well. And so, come to the experience if you really believe in collaboration and you want to work together to bring Upper Cervical to a public that is literally struggling and suffering out there without the knowledge of a potential solution. That’s the tragedy that exists. That’s our job and that’s why I spend so much time putting my energy into things that don’t necessarily bring me financial rewards because those pieces are what in the end makes your life worthwhile.

So, thank you for having me Bill. I appreciate that.

Dr. Davis: Awesome! Alright. I just want to hold up Dr. Jeff Scholten. This is the reason why I want to have him on the very first podcast. And that’s because I want him to be a model. Not an anomaly in Upper Cervical but that all Upper Cervical doctors can do what Jeff is doing, can have a successful practice and be involved in all these different aspects. That’s what it’s going to take guys – that’s what it’s going to take to advance Upper Cervical – there’s only about 3000 of us out there who are Upper Cervical doctors; and to move this forward, we need involvement. We need people get connected with the Upper Cervical Council and the diplomate program, the experience and all these different ways that we can get connected, get involved and move Upper Cervical forward. And so, thank you again Jeff for being on today, and we’ll talk soon.

Dr. Scholten: Bill, it’s my absolute pleasure and again thank you for everything that you’re doing. You know, the value that you’re bringing not only through your business of Upper Cervical Marketing but also through all of your activities, your volunteer efforts to help drive these things forward as well. And your support is greatly noticed and greatly appreciated.

Dr. Davis: Awesome!

Dr. Scholten: Thanks Bill.

Dr. Davis: Thank you Jeff!

Episode One: Dr. Jeff Scholten Links Discussed In The Show

Emyth Revisted Book

Dr. Jeff Scholten practice


Dr. Kerry Johnson’s MyChiroCorrection


Dr. Bob Brooks Taking Care of People Seminars


Dr. Josh Wagner Perfect Patient Funnel System



Upper Cervical Research Foundation


ICA Council on Upper Cervical Care and UC Diplomate


Upper Cervical Health Centers



The Upper Cervical Experience Event


UCM 001: Dr. Jeff Scholten – Mastering Communication of Your Report of Findings
UCM 001: Dr. Jeff Scholten – Mastering Communication of Your Report of Findings
UCM 001: Dr. Jeff Scholten – Mastering Communication of Your Report of Findings
About the Author: Dr. Bill Davis
Dr. Bill Davis is the Founder and CEO of uppercervicalmarketing.com. His goal is to spread the word about the best-kept secret in health through Upper Cervical Specific Business and Marketing Solutions.
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