UCM 010: Dr. Julie Mayer-Hunt and How the Upper Cervical Diplomate Has Revolutionized Her Practice




UCM 010: Dr. Julie Mayer-Hunt and How the Upper Cervical Diplomate Has Revolutionized Her Practice


Dr. Julie Mayer-Hunt and How the Upper Cervical Diplomate Has Revolutionized Her Practice

In this Upper Cervical Marketing podcast host Dr. Bill Davis inteviews Dr. Julie Mayer-Hunt and How the Upper Cervical Diplomate Has Revolutionized Her Practice.

Dr. Davis: Dr. Julie Mayer Hunt has been a practicing upper cervical chiropractor for nearly 35 years. She's very well known for her work with Pediatrics and upper cervical as president of the orthospinology organization and also as a diplomate with the ICA Pediatrics portion of the diplomate. She has also been part of the UCHC as a board member there, and has recently been named a fellow in the Cranial Cervical Junction procedures and Chiropractor of the Year from the ICA Upper Cervical Council in 2016. Welcome Dr. Julie!

Dr. Mayer: Well, thank you. I'm glad to be here.

Multi-Generational Chiropractor

Dr. Davis: Awesome! All right doc. Well, we've talked previously about your experience and just how long you’ve been practicing now and how you are multi-generational chiropractor, your dad's a great chiropractor as well, a great upper cervical chiropractor, and just your experience with BJ Palmer, and everything going way back when.

Dr. Mayer: It's really beautiful. My son has just joined us in practice, and so my dad covered the practice today, and my dad was saying to me the other day apparently when I was a wee one, we would go down to BJ's place in Sarasota, and apparently we were there several times, and he said, “BJ would be so proud of you right now.” He said, ”What you've been able to accomplish in upper cervical was always his passion,” and I just thought that was the sweetest thing. I never saw that coming, but you think back here I was a wee babe being bounced on BJ's knee if you will, never understanding maybe what that influence was going to be in my life.

Dr. Davis: Yeah, that's amazing, it really is. The generational changes with upper cervical and just the evolution of it has been just remarkable to see where it started from where it is today and we're going to get a lot into that today and so let's start talking about. I'd like to talk about the diplomate - kind of how it came to be and I know that you got the diplomate in Pediatrics. You said around 2000.

Dr. Mayer: Yup!

The Birth of the Upper Cervical Diplomate Program

Dr. Davis: And so, tell me about how the upper cervical diplomate came to be. I know it was quite a process.

Dr. Mayer: It was a beautiful process. The diplomate for the upper cervical procedures was actually started back in the mid-90s. It was through Sherman College, and that program did not succeed. In about 2008, I was sitting at an FCS conference and I have to tell you I sit back, and I can see God's hand in this every step of the way, but I spent about two hours with Bobby Braille figuring out how to resurrect this diplomate program, how I would go about this for upper cervical. And at the end of about the two hours, he gets a phone call. He steps away. He looks back at me kind of quizzically, and he comes back to me and he says, “Julie that was Dr. Clum. The diplomate program has been implemented in the ICA. It's ready to roll. Everything we just talked about for the last two hours has just been done.”

Dr. Davis: Wow!

Dr. Mayer: And I just kind of looked at Bobby, I'm going, “how is that possible?”

Dr. Davis: Amazing.

Dr. Mayer: And so then, Gerry was kind enough to invite all the upper cervical leaders out to Life West for a meeting in the summer of 2008 and we put together a Council to move forward creating the diplomate program.

Now, at the time I was just representing Orthospinology. I wasn't foreseeing how this was going to play out, but as it played out, it ended up that myself and Dr. Bo Rochester were given the opportunity to put together the curriculum for this program. And I couldn't have had a better colleague to help put together the best program imaginable - understanding the most important joint of the body, the cranial cervical Junction.

And then shortly after that, I got to meet Dr. Scott Rosa, and I've been in practice about 29 years at that point was my recall when I met him, and I as an upper cervical second-generation practitioner was very focused on balancing 24 segments, 22 discs, 31 pairs of nerves by precisely centering that head-neck relationship as you understand. But my takeaway after spending time with Dr. Rosa up at a research project in New York was I'd always gone with the above down inside out parameter, but I had never thought about the importance of how when that head-neck relationship isn't balanced, it also affects fluid flow dynamics to the brain critically.

And this subject has only gotten bigger more important. Has only, I cannot tell you how much I've learned in the last five years. It is so exciting. So, the biggest piece that I took away from that first research experience up in Albany, which by the way Dr. Scott Rosa was on NBC last night talking about two of his famous patients that he works with. If you go on Facebook, it's there. It was phenomenal.

Dr. Davis: Wow!

Dr. Mayer: In McCann and a famous soccer player. But anyhow, when we look at traditional MRIs, if they do a brain MRI, they'll come a couple slices beneath the base of the skull and then they stop. If they do a neck MRI, they'll do sagittal slices, which are usually pretty big. Forty five millimeters and then actually they will start at the C2 disc and go caudal. So, to date absolutely other than Dr. Rosa and others that are specifically creating their own sequences, no one has looked at the most important joint of the body through MRI. On a CAT scan, they'll order a CAT scan of that area. They're looking to rule out fracture but no one has looked at the morphology at that level, the internal jugulars and how they're being affected at that level. But it’s just hasn't been looked at, and the more I learned, the more I realized how incredibly important this area is.

Dr. Davis: Right.

Dr. Mayer: I was at a meeting last week at the American Association of Orthopedic Medicine. They were about I'd say 175, maybe 200 docs in the room, and I was the only chiropractor, and I came in to listen to a couple of presentations. One was on a screw fixation of the C1-C2. It had gone south and understanding what they can do moving forward from there. And the other was by Dr. Chris Centeno out of Colorado, who is doing stem cell injections through the back of the throat into the cranial cervical junction. It is still experimental, but some of my cases when we look at their anatomy of the cranial cervical Junction - there has been so much damage done that that's why they're not holding their adjustments well, and so we're having to look at what are better ways to stabilize this area.

Now there's a neurosurgeon in my area who's just moved here. He specializes in a procedure screw fixation of the cranial cervical junction, and there are times that that's the only choice that we can consider, but I have to tell you, when you look at the dynamics of what goes on from that point forward, we talk about when there are fusions done at the spine, that it's the levels above and below that then come into play for the next fusion. When you screw fixate the cervical cranial junction to stabilize the brainstem area, please understand C2-3, C3-4. I mean it's just a matter of time before they're toast.

Dr. Davis: Right.

Dr. Mayer: It's something how they talk about when they do hip replacements. They wait the longest possible because they know it's going to wear out and they're going to have to do it again. So, we're having to look at other things to do to help stabilize that critical area that holds the weight of our head in place and allows fluid flow to the brain to clean and wash the brain and bring it nutrients.

So, when I came back from my study up at Dr. Rosa's, I went immediately to an Upright Imaging Center, and I put together sequences that I wanted done of the cranial cervical junction much like we would do for orthogonal films on the XYZ axis, and I've done about 450 studies today. I have learned so much in the last five years. So very much.

So, as I put together this program, I had an idea of what we needed to be experts in. We needed to be experts in anatomy. We needed to be experts in the neurology through that area. We need to be experts in biomechanics and that's just the kickoff for the first period of time for the program, and two weeks ago, we graduated the first class at the ICA 90th conference - 90th anniversary of their conferences, and I was astounded that almost, well I will say, each and every of the candidates that graduated came up to me and personally thanked me for how much this program has changed their lives, their patients’ lives, their practices forever. And I was just kind of stunned because I'm so busy working. I didn't see that coming.

Dr. Davis: Right. So, go ahead.

The Traditional MRI

Dr. Mayer: So, as we start looking at other aspects of MRIs, one of the biggest parts is that traditionally MRIs have been done lying down. But when we look at the MRIs lying down, particularly at the cranial cervical junction, when you're lying down the back of your head lacks something of the bowl and tends to have the brain tissue slide into the belly of the bowl if you will. When you stand upright, the tissue may sit in a completely different position, and so that is what I have found dramatically in patients who have been read normal, if you will, on the brain MRI, and then when we do an upright imaging of the cranial cervical junction, we find significant chiari.

Dr. Davis: Right.

Dr. Mayer: And so, a piece of this pie that had to happen was I needed to find a radiologist who would opine on these things for me. So, I reached down to a longtime colleague friend of my father's and it took about a year-and-a-half of meeting with him most every Friday as I learned more about MRIs, and I got to show him a little bit of what we were looking at. And then, he very graciously said, this is great but I'm retiring.

Dr. Davis: Right.

The Most Exciting Thing

Dr. Mayer: And I went, oh no, oh no and I congratulate him and his job well done. I mean, just a phenomenal doctor, and about six weeks later, he wrote me back. He said, I can't stand it. What you all are doing an upper cervical at the cranial cervical junction is the most exciting thing I've ever seen in my career. I'm back in.

Dr. Davis: Huh! Wow!

Dr. Mayer: And so he came back and he taught for the diplomate program as well as continues to read and opine on these things because if a radiologist isn't taught to opine on this, they say nothing. And for an example, we are…

Dr. Davis: Who is this? Who is this again?

Dr. Mayer: Richard LeBaron, Dr. Dick LeBaron.

Dr. Davis: Okay.

Dr. Mayer: He’s in St. Pete and he's just amazing. So he's a doctor who – his first associate was Jim Winterstein. So, you have to understand how all these things tied together in a way that I could have never created.

Dr. Davis: Right. Okay.

Dr. Mayer: But anyhow, so, as we were at this one conference on the MRI, it clearly showed with the atlas rotation that the transverse process was occluding the internal jugular and we asked. Dr. LeBaron was in the audience, why wasn't that ever opined on by another radiologist. They don't say a thing. He says, “Were not taught to opine on that.” He said, “If we're not taught to opine on it, we won't comment on it.” So, there's another layer to this that we had to raise the consciousness of the radiologist to the critical nature of this area, and understand what's getting into the brain and what's getting out of the brain, ie. old blood can be blocked and backed up in the brain, and probably the most significant occurrence that's come up is in 2012 they found the lymphatic system for the brain, and they're literally rewriting the textbooks. With the lymphatic system to the brain and the inventor of the MRI will clearly tell you that he was taught as a radiologist that the cerebral spinal fluid was nothing more than saltwater to float the brain in, but with the discovery of the lymphatic system for the brain, it takes us to a whole another level of understanding of fluid flow dynamics and how critical that is, and I laugh a little bit because I'm old enough that I was taught that a pinched nerve was like a kink in the hose.

Dr. Davis: Right.

Dr. Mayer: And now we call it, correct me if I'm possibly right, a neurobiomechanical lesion is what I've heard last.

Dr. Davis: Sure.

Dr. Mayer: It’s what a subluxation is, but I'm here to tell you when that head-neck relationship isn't balanced, it is a flippin kink in the hose.

Dr. Davis: Right.

Dr. Mayer: And we all know how important it is to get adequate blood supply to the heart. I was in the office one day and I had a cardiologist’s wife in who had been through 30 years of just non-stop migraines, dizziness, and I did a specific imaging of the CCJ. Found she was four and a half millimeters down and in but no one had ever seen it because they did all the imaging lying down, and I had a relationship with a neurologist in town who I’d commented to her that I was seeing predominance in headache cases of these low-lying tonsils. I mean predominance, and if you think about it, our headache patients – what do they like to do when they have a headache?

Dr. Davis: Lay down.

Dr. Mayer: They like to lay down.

Dr. Davis: Yup.

Dr. Mayer: So what are they doing? They're moving the cerebellar tonsil.

Dr. Davis. Right. Yeah. That makes sense.

Dr. Mayer: I said to her, I'm seeing a predominance of this and the neurologist said to me, “Well Julie,” she said, “It looks like there's enough room for fluid to get by there,” and I thought to myself as I went in to see this cardiologist’s wife. I said, “Would your husband just kind of look to see if the heart is getting enough fluid or we would, would they measure and quantify that?”

Dr. Davis: Right.

Dr. Mayer: This was your brain. This is your brain. So, since that study back in Albany five years ago, my focus has changed dramatically to I don't think of a headache as a headache anymore. I'm concerned about that patient’s brain health.

Dr. Davis: Right.

Dr. Mayer: I don't think about pressure in the head is just head pressure. I'm concerned about the fluid flow dynamics and what's occurring there. I have seen enough specific upper cervical imaging of the cranial cervical Junction that I have walked away with an entirely different concept of what's going on and the importance of the fluid flow dynamics in the brain. I have a little boy coming to see me, he turned two in December and he's a twin, and the mother is an RN, and they come in about six hours to see me. Another chiropractor referred him down to me but he had a lesion load in his brainstem. His head and neck were overtly tilted to one side almost like a torticollis, only worse, and I have seen where the fluid flow when the head-neck relationship is distorted can literally pound into the neural tissue, and just like if you took a hose and put it flowing against the wall. Eventually, you're going to affect the wall, drywall whatever…

Dr. Davis: Right.

Dr. Mayer: But I'm seeing lesion load that when you get the fluid flow dynamics restored, you can actually see those lesion loads abate, and the mom who's an RN, said that the medical doctors next choice was to take a biopsy of his brain stem, and she reacted understanding that you don't, you can't put that stuff back.

Dr. Davis: Right.

Dr. Mayer: So, where at the point where he, from his first adjustment, and it is so exciting to work with some of these kids because there's a connection with them I can never describe. I mean the parents are even amazed. They're like, he just loves you touching him and he just kind of coos as I work with him, as I work to free his head-neck relationship in a very, very specific precise way, and he has gone from unable to walk, unable to crawl to almost keeping up with his two year old twin.

Dr. Davis: Wow!

Dr. Mayer: Just dramatic changes and we're due to do a repeat imaging here in the next couple weeks, and that the lesion load is abating, we're going to continue with the treatment plan as is. If it is not abating, we're going to make the time to go up to Albany and get the imaging done there at the center in Albany that Dr. Rosa worked out. So, it's just exciting to see changes and understanding things that just weren't apparent before.

The Diplomate Program

Dr. Davis: Yeah, absolutely. So, the diplomate was born out of that meeting back in or born in 2008.

Dr. Mayer: Right.

Dr. Davis: Kind of started coming back and getting into place over the past, what does that been? Seven years here.

Dr. Mayer: Yeah.

Dr. Davis: Eight years?

Dr. Mayer: Eight years, yeah.

Dr. Davis: Yeah, and so, it starts – the diplomate starts in, when did you actually start the diplomate? What year was that?

Dr. Mayer: I want to say 2013.

Dr. Davis: 13, okay.

Dr. Mayer: It might so, well, it might have been twelve. Forgive me, trying to do math. It’s three years and we finished last year in 2015. So, it must have been twelve.

Dr. Davis: Got you. Alright. So, start the program, it's a three year program, right? And tell me, just tell people about your experience actually just going through the program rather than just what we want to talk later about how it's impacted you and your practice… Just what's the experience of going through the program for someone who might be considering it?

Dr. Mayer: Okay. Well, first off this is my second three-year program.

Dr. Davis: Right.

Dr. Mayer: So, some components of this, I knew that we're going to be in play.

Dr. Davis: Okay, because you did the pediatrics?

Dr. Mayer: Yup. I understand the sacrifices at that time and the weekends and the papers that are to be written and the exams that are to be taken and I understand all that. But I have to tell you, I started this program at launched the same month and my son started Chiropractic College, and I remember being jealous of him. I was thinking, “Oh! I wish I was in his shoes. There is so much coming forward that's so exciting in healthcare with respect to brain health and upper cervical care.” I wish it was me and then I thought, “Oh, I am starting a three-year program, what are you talking about?” And each step of the way as I, as we went through the different modules that we've put together whether it be advanced imaging MRI or whether it be neurology or anatomy, understanding and really understanding the ligaments of the spine at the cervical cranial junction, and understanding what weaknesses would predispose you to adjust somebody differently. Also, understanding that there are malformations there. There are spinous processes of C2 that are malformed and you'll never see that on an orthogonal film or on any other upper cervical film. You will only see that on MRI, and it just changes how your vectors are, and how you adjust that patient, and the results that you get are so much better than you've ever seen before. And the cases that you tend to get will become more complex, more compelling.

I had a four-month-old in yesterday from the other side of the state, who as I worked with the little girl, the parents were at a point where mom didn't know if she was going to make it much further. Just the baby she can't lay her down. The baby cries all the time, fusses all the time, and as I worked with this four month old who she had gotten referrals one from Tulsa, Oklahoma, and one from the other side of the state, and both the people said, you've got to see this one person and it just happened to be me. But as I worked with the little girl and I got her head-neck balanced and I got the erector spinae thousands released and as I handed this priceless little girl back to her mother, I said, “Just be prepared she's going to sleep,” and the mom kind of laughed at me. She goes, “She's never slept. She's slumbers for maybe 20 minutes at the most and then she's fussing and crying.” So, an hour later because as I'm working with the baby, the dad’s doing some stuff with his head and neck that was making me crazy. I said, “You need to get that fix. I'm not going to handle watching you rank your neck around here” So, I ended up working up the dad as well and he did phenomenal with care, but she said, “It's been an hour, she hasn't woken up. She's still sleeping,” and to me it's exciting to see that family's life restored to something enjoyable, but at the end of the day, I know that I have affected that child's brain health development, and that's the most important part. It’s the immune system.

We’re in fact, the diplomate candidates that have just graduated. We have a meeting Tuesday. We have put together an immune study, an upper cervical research project where we're going to be looking at immune responses with upper cervical care, and you and I both know that kids under upper cervical care just don't get sick.

Dr. Davis: Right.

Dr. Mayer: I mean if they do, their body needs to really deal with something but it's not the norm. They're not seeing a pediatrician two or three times a year because they're sick. It just doesn't happen. So, it's exciting to have doctors that are trained up to this level who have gone the extra miles to get this training that we can put together some quality research and really make a difference.

Dr. Davis: Yeah, that's awesome. So, as you're going through the program, learning just, I mean it sounds almost like going to chiropractic school but just for upper cervical?

Dr. Mayer: Yeah. Yes.

Dr. Davis: That would be a good description?

Dr. Mayer: Yeah.

Dr. Davis: Yeah and I mean, how awesome would it mean. Every one of us who has been in upper cervical practice, I guarantee a lot of the things we learned in chiropractic school, we wish we wouldn't have had to learn. Right?

Dr. Mayer: Right.

Dr. Davis: There's so much where, it's like almost feels like almost a waste of time.

Dr. Mayer: Yeah.

Preparing You to Become Upper Cervical Spine Expert

Dr. Davis: When you come, when you go to this program, it's like doing chiropractic school right. That would be a good explanation where it's really preparing you to be an expert in the upper cervical spine?

Dr. Mayer: And not only that. We're exploring new areas that we have never considered. One of the cases that I worked up in Albany while I was there was actually a chiropractor. She graduated from the first class over there in Palmer, Florida, and she had come in to see me because she had a tumor. Pituitary tumor, and they were going to do the surgery, which was going to render her likely blind up through the nasal passages to blow out this pituitary tumor, and just so happened I had Dr. Harshfield here at the house one night with Dr. Rosa. It was a very unplanned meeting. It was just something that happened. I happened to thrown the disc and he looked and he goes, “That's not a mask old tumor.” He said, “That is the cerebral spinal fluid moving around inside the skull such that it's pounding into the diaphragm on top the celica turcica, compressing the tumor and expanding it and making it look like a tumor.” He said, “That's a fluid-driven problem.”

Dr. Davis: Wow!

Dr. Mayer: Took her up to Albany. We did pre and post imaging and I always have to apologize for this because as a female I can get away with this, but that tumor on the imaging prior to the adjustment was maybe a D-cup and as opposed it was a B-cup.

Dr. Davis: Oh!

Dr. Mayer: And I'm sorry. I can get away with saying that.

Dr. Davis: Right. Right.

Dr. Mayer: That's what I saw. I was like, “Oh my gosh!” And her neurosurgeon here is just blown away. He said, “I don't know what you've done, but we had to get the vectors off the MRI and then tell you.” Understanding the x-ray skeletal structure of the cranial cervical Junction is one thing. Understanding the ligaments, the soft tissue, and the morphology of the brainstem. I mean I have brain stems that with the rotation instead of it looking round like it should at the brain stem axial cut, it looks like a football.

Dr. Davis: Uhuh!

To Vaccinate or Not to Vaccinate?

Dr. Mayer: …and then you have those cases that develop syrinx secondary to the brain stem being malposition in the fluid driving into the central canal. I mean, there is so much we don't understand and so much to learn yet. I can't wait for this next program to be launched. It is only getting better and better. One of the cases last year that I was up there was a little three-year-old girl from Kenya, and she was the most severe I've ever seen as far as a debilitated child. She could not move any limb. Her head hung over the front of her. She couldn't hold her head up, and when I went to examine her, her eyes looked two different directions completely. She could not focus, look at me, couldn't talk. She can't swallow and in my heart of hearts, I just was so sad because I'm thinking to myself she may not make it.

Dr. Davis: Wow.

Dr. Mayer: I mean this is, this is – she may not make it, and so we did the imaging and as I looked at the imaging of the brain, what was happening, the cerebral spinal fluid which is developed in the ventricles of the brain should go down the spinal cord and then come back up with every cardiac respiratory cycle.

Dr. Davis: Right.

Dr. Mayer: And it was not going down the cord because of the head-neck being so malpositioned, it was back hitting into the brain and her ventricles and everything was blown up to the point that it just looks so wrong. It was so fluid filled and as I was walking down the hall of the MRI Center, it hit me so hard that, if she's got that much abnormal parameters going on at the brain level, when she really went downhill was when they started vaccinating her, and I thought maybe children should be checked for abnormal CSF before they're vaccinated because she didn’t have a chance with her neurology to deal with the vaccines. In other words, that’s when she started seizing and going down I'm thinking maybe the question shouldn't be to vaccinate or not to vaccinate. Not that I have that question but maybe the question should be, are these kids in alignment or not?

Dr. Davis: Right.

Dr. Mayer: And so, then I went a little bit farther and by the way the next day she came in, she was holding her head up. She was focusing at me. She had swallowed the night before for the first time.

Dr. Davis: Wow!

The First Biomarker for Autism

Dr. Mayer: …and we kept up with her. She started moving her arms and legs. On the post CSF imaging, the fluid was moving down and coming back up around but here's the most amazing thing, if you google CSF and autism you will find a link that they have found the first biomarker for autism. Guess what it is?

Dr. Davis: Excess CSF?

Dr. Mayer: That’s excess that fluid in the brain.

Dr. Davis: Interesting.

Dr. Mayer: And it's Dr. David Amaral, A-M-A-R-A-L who has a link on it. It's about eight and a half minutes, and he's pushing for early detection because he said the earlier we get to these kids, the better we can make a difference in their lives.

So, the first biomarker for autism and it's published in July 2013, looking at the study here in front of me, it's at the David School of Medicine, University of California.

Dr. Davis: Got it.

Dr. Mayer: … Institute and they're finding excess CSF fluid in the brain is the leading biomarker. The more fluid they have in the brain, the more autistic they are.

Dr. Davis: Wow!

Dr. Mayer: This is huge! We're only getting…

Dr. Davis: Yeah! You think of you put the MMR vaccine to a kid that already has these biomarkers.

Dr. Mayer: Yeah.

Dr. Davis: Wow! That's…

Dr. Mayer: It's huge.

Dr. Davis: Yeah.

Other Studies: MS, Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s

Dr. Mayer: So, we're only getting started. We have only scratched the surface. There is so much to this, and when the research got started over in Italy through Ray Drury’s Group, Upper Cervical Health Care Centers and they were looking at MS…

Dr. Davis: Right.

Dr. Mayer: …and the medical doctors when they were presenting here, it was in 2010 at the conference they said, patients under upper cervical care will not develop MS, and I thought to myself, “Okay guys, you can't say that, you can't say that,” but then I looked at the practice that's now, it's 58 years. We have never had an established patient ever develop MS. Now, had never thought about that.

Dr. Davis: Wow!

Dr. Mayer: And then I thought about how many of our patients have ever developed Alzheimer's. In the years that I've been there and because I grew up in the practice, I pretty much know everybody.

Dr. Davis: Yeah!

Dr. Mayer: I can think of one patient who became, she forgot where she hid her jewelry and then things went downhill before she passed, and I thought but that's one patient. I wonder how that compares to other practices in health care.

Dr. Davis: Yeah.

Dr. Mayer: I've never had an established patient develop Parkinson's. Now, it maybe that I only see 13 to 14,000 patient visits a year that I'm just telling you it's a huge practice, and…

Dr. Davis: Sure.

Dr. Mayer: I should be seeing these things.

How Long Has Your Practice in Existence?

Dr. Davis: Well, yeah. And even think about how long has your practice been in existence?

Dr. Mayer: Fifty eight years. Upper cervical.

Dr. Davis: Fifty-eight years. Right. So, in 58 years how many thousands, tens of thousands of patients have you seen?

Dr. Mayer: Well, if it's we're just scratching the surface is the way as I look at it.

Dr. Davis: Right. That’s remarkable. So, okay so going through the program, it's just completely invigorating you personally and in changing the way that you're looking at the upper cervical spine and so forth, and so start talking about how much different your practice is.

Dr. Mayer: Oh my goodness!

Dr. Davis: How compared to what or was five years ago or yeah?

Dr. Mayer: The complexity of the cases that I’m working with today doesn’t even look like what they did five years ago. I mean I will get the occasional routine neck, back, headache type case, but I have cases now. I in fact, one day I looked and I had five wheelchairs in the office. I said, “Okay, I've got to do something here,” and the exciting part of that is the results that you get to see in these patients lives. I mean it's just, when I talked to that mom last night who I adjusted the four-month-old, who had never slept. She said, they got home. She said, her husband was like, “Uh! My back doesn't hurt for the first time after driving, and the baby slept the whole way home.” She said, “I'm nervous because now I'm thinking the baby won't sleep tonight.” I said, “No she's going to sleep.” She's been waiting for me for four months.

Recent Textbooks

Dr. Davis: Right. One thing I am going to suggest strongly is there's a recent textbook out published on the cranial cervical syndrome in MRI. It's published by Karger, K-A-R-G-E-R, and one of the chapters in there is by Dr. Rosa, and they're looking at the advances in MRI in the cranial cervical junction. So, this is mainly radiologists who are publishing in this textbook…

Dr. Davis: Uhuh.

Dr. Mayer: But Scott Rosa is also in there, but that textbook it's about $100 on Amazon. The Cranial Cervical Syndrome and MRI is so valuable as an insight as to what's going on at the cranial cervical junction. To me it's like going from a picture that's black and white pencil if you will, and going to 3D.

Dr. Davis: Right.

Dr. Mayer: It just changes everything and how you see things. I would have patients come to me in the past and they would tell me these odd symptoms like they feel this pounding in their head on the one side or they have this pressure here. These odd sensations they would have and I just kind of look at them going okay, but now that I've spent so much time looking at MRI and fluid flow dynamics in the brain, I can see what they're saying, and it makes such a difference because it gives me a better grasp on how to help them moving forward.

The Growth of Upper Cervical Practice and Taking Care of People

Dr. Davis: Interesting. Yeah, and I'll put a link in the show notes for everybody's listening. I'll put a link in there to get to the book that Julie mentioned and also to the article from UC Davis as well to help you guys get to that information easily. And then also, so the complexity of the cases is a big thing and then you would talk to me too about just the growth of your practice and taking care of so many more people than you were previously.

Dr. Mayer: Taking care of, it's more the families now. One of the patients is signed up. It used to be that the other family members would straggle in. There at the front desk and their scheduling every family member. It's just a totally different parameter and I don't know if it's my level of expertise that's coming across, that they're feeling more excited about getting their families in for care, but it's moving in a direction that I know that we've got to have doctors trained up for this,

Dr. Davis: Right.

Dr. Mayer: If you look at the NBC link last night with Dr. Rosa, one of the things that he's advocating is a screening procedure for athletes to make sure they're not at risk for some of these problems that he's seeing with sports, and we’re going to need doctors who aren't capable of screening these kids. I mean, you've got to know what you're looking at, and I mean if you look at football and soccer alone not to mention hockey and the other sports, screening would be a blessing for all of these kids because which one of us would put our kids in a sport that knowingly they would end up with dementia or some of the – if you listen to some of what Jim McMahon shared and certainly it's been out there in the football news that these guys who have committed suicide,

Dr. Davis: Right.

Dr. Mayer: ...and they just not think and they don't want to live, and none of us would do that to our kids. None of us, but to have a screening tool that we can say, “Yes this kid is not likely to get into that type of trouble based on how the head-neck is built if you will,”

Dr. Davis: Yeah.

Dr. Mayer: Like this, I think I mentioned to you two minutes before I got on the call, I got this calling of this 10, excuse me, 15 months old out of Memphis Tennessee who has 10 millimeter chiari. They're coming down to see me. We may be going to Albany as well, but screening these kids no matter what the sport they're going into, understanding how that brain and brainstem are connected?

Dr. Davis: Right.

Dr. Mayer: Would indicate and we all see this. We have patients who come in the office who never get a headache. Well, I'm telling you what I'm finding in that case? I'm finding that the base of the skull, the cerebellar tonsils are usually not even close to the spinal canal.

So, if the cerebellar tonsils are way up high and there's lots of room for fluid to get through, a head-neck trauma won't likely compromise where those tonsils are and put them into the opening, blocking fluid flow and setting the stage for neurodegenerative brain diseases.

So, we've got to be ready. We have got to get going, and the other part of this is that if we don't jump on this, I guarantee you. I've seen this happen in Italy with the research that was being done on the blood flow in the MS cases. There are two studies out there that have been published. The last one was 77 patients with MS, and upper cervical care published August last year. I can get you that reference if you'd like and give that to you later. I can't pull it up at the moment.

Dr. Davis: Yup.

Dr. Mayer: But right now, after the first study was published in 2013 and the MD saw the changes that it made, guess what? They're now adjusting. So, if we're not real careful and own this, but they're going to walk away with it.

Dr. Davis: It’s something that it's not just a, that's a real possibility?

Dr. Mayer: Oh, absolutely! If they figure out something that works.

Dr. Davis: Yup.

Dr. Mayer: And they don't really know what they're doing in adjusting but they're getting some results, so they're happy.

The Diplomate Program is a Good Choice

Dr. Davis: Right. Yup, that's it. So, just wrapping up Julie, with our call today and I just want give you the last word. Just if anyone is, that's considering the diplomate program and you were having lunch with them. You were sitting down. You're talking with them. Just bring some encouragement on why that would be a good choice for them at this time.

Dr. Mayer: Well, I honestly feel it is probably the best program that has ever been put together, and I'm not saying that to slap myself upside the back. That's not what this is about, but I think it is on the bleeding edge of where we need to be in health care and understanding brain health. Whether it's autism to Alzheimer's, we have got to understand how to maximize brain health for our families, for our patients, for our country. I don't say that lightly because with the current rates of autism, there's a recent study that's saying, one in forty-five. If we don't get a handle on this, that's a black hole that there's not going to be enough money to pour in it to take care of these kids. We got to be proactive. We have got to get on this. We've got to understand how to maximize brain health. We're all about it with heart health, but I will tell you right now Bill, between you and I without ever asking this. I would any day walk out of here with a heart attack then sit around for ten years and not know what my name is.

Dr. Davis: Absolutely.

Dr. Mayer: And so, I don't mean to be odd about that, but I was mentioning the American Association of Orthopedic Medicine meeting earlier that I was at last week, and the radiologist there pointed me out as the expert, the only chiropractor there and the cranial cervical junction. I was absolutely mobbed by doctors seeking my help and advice on who, where to refer to. I mean, they were from all over North America, and one doctor broke down in tears. She had been in so much trouble. I ended up going to the office, getting her treated, got her referred to a doctor in Seattle who did the program, and she was like… this is the breath of life. This is what I've been looking for, but for me to be singled out in a group of 175 medical doctors and have them all jump on board to say, “Thank God! There's somebody who knows what they're doing in that area,” more than I probably have before I know that. It’s exciting. I mean it's all set there for us.

Dr. Davis: Awesome. Alright. Well, I mean if you're if you're not excited about the diplomate program after our conversation as my pastor usually says, then thing your wood is wet, right? You can't be fired up when you talk with Dr. Julie about this program, and so, I just want to encourage everybody that's listening. Really look at it and consider it. We're going to have links in the show notes. You can go to uppercervicalmarketing.com/episode10. We'll have all the links to some of the studies and the articles that Dr. Julie and I talked about. Also, the links to the diplomate program and link on the ICA Upper Cervical Council website as well. So, thank you so much Dr. Julie.

Dr. Mayer: Thank you for having me. I really appreciated having the time to talk about something I love more than life itself.

Dr. Davis: Awesome.

Important Links Discussed in This Episode:


UCM 010: Dr. Julie Mayer-Hunt and How the Upper Cervical Diplomate Has Revolutionized Her Practice
UCM 010: Dr. Julie Mayer-Hunt and How the Upper Cervical Diplomate Has Revolutionized Her Practice
UCM 010: Dr. Julie Mayer-Hunt and How the Upper Cervical Diplomate Has Revolutionized Her Practice
About the Author: Dr. Bill Davis
Dr. Bill Davis is the Founder and CEO of uppercervicalmarketing.com. His goal is to spread the word about the best-kept secret in health through Upper Cervical Specific Business and Marketing Solutions.
We understand the pain of losing valuable time and money… and what it can be like to hate your marketing. That’s why we specialize exclusively in upper cervical care and chiropractic online marketing.
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