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An Upper Cervical Marketing Podcast Interview with host Dr. Bill Davis and Dr. Christopher Wolff of Seattle Washington discussing how to build your dream practice through laying out a vision and executing on it.
Dr. Davis: Hey everybody. It’s Dr. Bill Davis here with Dr. Christopher Wolff. How are you doing Dr. Wolff?
Dr. Wolff: Great Bill! How are you?
Dr. Davis: I'm doing awesome. All right doc. Well, I am excited to talk with you today, and for anybody that's not familiar with you, doesn't know you personally, can you just give us a little bit of background, introduce yourself to the audience?
Dr. Wolff: Sure! Yeah, I've been practicing actually now for 19 years. I graduated from Sherman College’s Straight Chiropractic. I like to throw that Straight in there in 1997. So, I was one month away from being 24 years old. So, I was pretty young at that time and then I hooked on as an associate with Dr. Michael Lenarz, which I'm sure many people know, and so we ended up long story short of opening a clinic together, and I bought that office out in 2001 and here I am today talking to you.
Dr. Davis: Awesome, so talk a little bit about your transition from school to practicing as an associate initially and then that transition to actually buying that first clinic.
Dr. Wolff: I didn't really have much of a transition. I came right on it. I took maybe a month off and came right out from Sherman to Seattle to work with Dr. Mike, and then like I said, we open that office in the Ballard Area of Seattle, and it was a pretty big hustle. I mean, we worked pretty hard. I was, I probably I drove a little bit was probably like 80 hour weeks or close to it. I hustled a lot. I mean a lot of success in that office, and that's the office, although we've moved it, then I'm sitting in right now that it has been around for 19 years and that's the mothership that had a lot of sweat equity into it's my baby and a lot of screenings, talks, health fairs, whatever you could view the hustle, I was doing it especially for those first two to three years, and that's really what I think was generally like the success of this place is that, we just had so many new patients that's created a really good foundation that even right now. I mean this morning, we had like two or three calls and it’s like new patients. It’s just non-stop.
Dr. Davis: That's awesome. So, 2001 you buy the clinic, right? And up to that point, how much of the business of the actual clinic were you involved with?
Dr. Wolff: I wasn't really involved in much of the accounting everything, but I was involved in everything else, and I've done billing. I had done input of charges. I ran the marketing obviously. I was the clinic director, so I pretty much ran everything except for anything financial. I think around accounting or writing a check…
Dr. Davis: Right, and so when you stepped into that role as owner rather than just clinic director, were there some learning curves or some things that you had to learn and learn quickly in order to be effective?
Dr. Wolff: Yeah, I think that learning about overhead was one big understanding that money coming in just isn't all yours, right? And I think I got that. I mean but you don't really did it. A lot of my associates that have bought out for me say the same thing to me. They're always surprised, I know why you were always so tight or upset or not upset or just like about certain things, and when I was setting on my x-ray tube just blew. I mean that's going to cost me five grand or whatever, and it's like, ‘Uh!’ and that's part of running a business, like things are going to happen. I'm getting an accountant and the things that they need and things that they need tracked and how you gotta keep track of receipts and taxes. Going to pay taxes, right?
Dr. Davis: Right.
Dr. Wolff: So, I think all those things were a bit of a learning curve, but definitely having the right accountant can make a lot of that go pretty well. What I think that's a biggie that I really learned early on to make sure that those people part of your team are really good and really trust them, and if they're good, and let them do their job, and I don't do any bookkeeping or anything like that. I just pay these people to do that stuff. I'm good at what I'm good at, and let them do that stuff.
Dr. Davis: Right, exactly and that's always been my philosophy too, focus on the things you're really good at and delegate the rest, and just make sure that you don't abdicate your responsibility. Still make sure that you're on top of the people that you've delegated to, but ultimately focus on the things that you're really good at, right?
Dr. Wolff: Yeah. I mean, I get some guys, would be like, I can't do this this weekend or I got to sit and do, I don't know, something with books or who knows whatever. I'm just thinking myself, man, that's a job. This was supposed to be fun, and I think that if we can get focused on what really matters, which is new patients, and obviously getting them well after that, and then getting those referrals and building the business. That's going to take care of itself, but when we spread ourselves soak in that we're worried about paying somebody $100 for the month to do this, to do your bookkeeping. I mean like, pay them.
Dr. Davis: Right. Yeah, right. Exactly. You always have to weigh the cost of whatever it is versus the cost of how much you could be making if you weren't doing that, right? If how much additional stress and just thought and energy that you're putting into that thing that is keeping you from advancing in your practice. It's kind of like, stepping over a dollar to pick up a penny.
Dr. Wolff: Exactly, and one of my big terms has always been the the highest commodity in our businesses is the new patient, like there's my staff anyway. My people here know that it comes up in our meetings. We do every weekend. There's no problem that you have in this business that you can't solve with more new patients, like ‘I know I'm not making enough money. Well, what should I do? Maybe get more new patients. Maybe I'm not busy. Okay, well maybe you need more new patients. I'm not this. I'm not like,’ it all comes back to new patients, then of course, like I said earlier, you need to be able to start them, give them process, and get them better, and manage them, but at the first step, you got to get them in your door.
Dr. Davis: Right, yeah. Absolutely. So, I want to talk more about the transition from 2001 through today, and then you mentioned a few times some other clinics and some associates buying out your clinics and so forth, and so to talk more about that time from buying the first clinic, buying the mothership as you said to now. What has happened all these years and what's happened with other clinics and what not?
Dr. Wolff: Yeah, well I kind of I got thrown into the associate mix Dr. Lenarz, and I was doing associates obviously. You had me and few others and had somebody else, and said, ‘Hey, you need an associate. I just bought out and like, okay.’ I mean, I had been an associate but having an associate was a new thing, right?
Dr. Davis: Right.
Dr. Wolff: And so anyways, we opened a clinic in Issaquah over here and this was 2003, I think. It did really well. Of course I think the joke is, he always has the joke that I only ruined my first associate, maybe permanently, and I probably did a lot of things to the head and learned from and would do differently now of course but that clinic is still gone, was bought out, it's very successful. I've done, we're opening I think I mentioned earlier a satellite or the sixth office next week or the week after, depends on when the building gets done. Hopefully, next week, and I've done roughly, I think I've trained probably about 40-plus associates in that time period. I don't know the exact number on that, but I do know that the successful associates are usually the ones who are able to kind of self-manage a bit. They're usually a go-getter. They're not afraid to just roll their shirt sleeves up. Do what you tell them to do. Maybe have a little bit of back talk though. I mean, they're not just robots when you're not being totally good on your job, but I do a lot of work with them. We do two trainings a week. Doctor’s training. The big one’s every Tuesday morning.
We go through our scripts. We go through adjusting or x-ray. Basically, I leave it up to them, part of it to determine what they want to work on. So, there's a lot of repetition. It's like, pro athletes. I always say like, these guys like the US open this weekend, those guys are out there practicing non-stop. I was watching it yesterday and just, I mean, Dustin Johnson went back to his hotel room, and because the rain shut down, and he could have carpet down, and was hitting balls out into the swamp. I put it on Instagram because he needed more practice.
So, he's not going to just go out there with all the towel in the world, and just win this weekend. There's things you got to work on, and same thing for us. There's communications are huge thing, and I think it's way underrated that if you can deliver clean, concise communication repetitively to patients, then you're going to gain trust from them, and you're also going to have trust throughout your office because the communication is going to be clear and it's going to be consistent as the word I'm looking for so consistency, and I think that's been a huge part of the success here, is really not only the hustle but like having that structure, and having the training and repetition to keep that consistency available, and it's been that way for 19 years. It hasn't changed. That's one thing I've actually very proud of it.
We've missed them here and there but I think in 19 years, I'd probably only miss like our office meeting every Tuesday with our staff. I think I've only missed like maybe six of those.
Dr. Davis: Wow!
Dr. Wolff: I mean that's pretty good. So, they're meaningful and the staff knows all the stats. They know all the stuff we're doing. Everybody's aware of everything. There's nothing hidden from anybody and we're all clear about what we're doing here. So…
Dr. Davis: That's great and I'm always shocked when I hear a doctor isn't doing regular staff meetings or regular meetings with their team. I mean or with their associates, and they're not doing regular trainings with their associates. I'm always surprised by that, because I just feel like that is just such a… it's a no-brainer for a business to be connected with your team and to be training your team on an ongoing basis, like you said, I mean the professional athletes example is a fantastic one. The amount of practice, the professional athlete does, and the amount that they meet with their team, right? Every single one of them have a team of people that they're continually working with. They're continually meeting with. They're continually getting coaching. They're getting interaction with their business people, with their marketing people, with everybody that's involved with their team. Their caddies and all these kinds of things you're talking about golfers, and so to not have that as a basic part of your business just doesn't make any sense to me.
Dr. Wolff: Well, it doesn't and I think for those listening to this, a good book. Well, there's two good books off, but one good book. One of the two is kind of speaks more to perhaps the chiropractor because it discusses a bit of the neurology involved. It's called ‘The Talent Code’. I think it's Geoff Colvin maybe who wrote it but ‘The Talent Code’ if you google it, but kind of in the link of the 10,000 hour rule, but it basically sum it up that every time we do something repetitively with deep practice, and you have somebody there monitoring, and coaching, and correcting and you're focused your body actually innately wraps myelin around those synapses and it makes it so it's automatic. So, the more you do it, the more it's done and the more it's coached and the more it's focused, the more it just becomes automatic, and so it makes talent overrated, because yeah these guys probably are all within a percent of one another. What's going to make one like Tiger Woods? And one not? And you know Tiger Woods played golf, coached very closely starting with his dad at three for 18 years. By the time he won the Masters at 21. So, even though he was only 21, he'd been playing golf for eighteen years. And not only playing, but very deep practice playing. So, it's the same thing with this, like those that are really good, it's not mistake why they're good. They care enough about it to keep at it, and it's always happening when nobody's watching, right?
So, I think that's something that I find a lot of doctors, especially in this and I'm not blanketed but it just seems a lot of things that you're treating this kind of like a hobby, when this is really a business, and it really needs to be ran like it, and there's really a fine line between being successful and not. It doesn't have to be that hard. It just has to be, you have to put in the time and the focus, and I think Gary Vaynerchuk is another one who talks a lot about, today it seems like everybody wants everything so fast, like I just want to get to being for instance, me almost twenty years in. I want to be you right now, and well Dr. Lenarz always used to tell me. I remember in the beginning was, how you get ten years because he was ten years in at that point. I get ten years of experience, and I'd be like, no it’s like you got to practice ten years.
Dr. Davis: Right.
Dr. Wolff: That makes sense. I mean it's a no-brainer, right?
So, one of Gary V's lines, and I love it is, a micro speed and macro patience, like you have to be super patient, and you have to be willing to put in that effort, and I was head down for really five years. I didn't take my first real vacation to my fifth year. That was kind of my gift to myself, and like that was my deal to myself too, that I would do that.
At that point, that was back in like 2002 probably or three. I was seeing over 300 visits a week and a Blair clinic, and had opened up a satellite office. So, doing 300 a week and seeing them efficiently, and you're scheduled from 8:30 to 6:00 p.m. with a two-hour lunch, and you get to race the last patient to their car was always a joke, meaning you were on it that day right. You were good. It's one thing if you see a hundred visits in a day, and you're like instead of closing at 6:00 you're closed at like 8:00 …but if you can be either in 6:15, that's a pretty good efficiency, and everybody's happy, right?
So, that other thing is not only just getting hyped on the newbies and all this stuff, but making sure that it's not stressful to where it explodes, maybe your staff quits, and you quit, and everything. So, that's the other problem you get successes. You get a bunch of new patients. Now, what do I do with all these people, right?
Dr. Davis: Right. So, I want to shift into that. Actually, that's some good conversation there about I know we were talking on social media before, and I was pointing out some characteristics that I saw in a lot of the people that we've interviewed, and a lot of people that I've known have been really successful in practice, and you said that the one I forgot was execution, and I said without a doubt that's true, and so I want to talk about the importance of execution in your practice, and how that applies to your daily practice, and maybe your planning and everything that you're doing with your practice, and how that's been so important with developing multiple clinics and forty associates, and all the things that you've done.
Dr. Wolff: Yeah, I think that's a that's a really biggie. I think there's a lot of talk out there all the time, and I'm going to do this or I'm doing this or whatever or I'm going to focus on I'm going to do this technique. I don't know if I do this technique or I want to do this marketing thing, but maybe I'm going to do this one.
I think making up your mind and just doing something like being in action, I think a lot of people miss the action part like, we can sit here and talk all day about all kinds of ways to adjust the atlas or all kinds of ways to get a new patient or different things to say, but like the other day you got to actually do something and get going. Pick one, do it, and I think it was when we used Five-star Management with Dr. Noel Lloyd, and I really like that. It's a fee-for-service deal we had. So, we got our scripting from we modified it to the Blair work, and it's been tweezed over the years, but it's pretty much been the same for 19 years, and I think that we have our meetings every Tuesday, like we talked about earlier, and those meetings start off with our wins. So, we want everybody to really feel good about what they're doing, and everybody's got to come to the meeting with a win at least one.
I mean, if you're doing this and you're not happy about why you're doing it, like why do you do it? I mean, so we do that, and we have our near-term goals, and I'm sure a lot of people have goals and what not, but the key part of that, is we have at least five spaces for action steps around your goals, and if anything sits on that action step list for more than two meetings, we have to have a group kind of intervention about it, and kind of have an action block conversation with that person. Sometimes it's me. Like, why are we not doing it? I'm going to go to such and such and meet with so-and-so about a health fair, and I’m not… and it's been on there two weeks.
So, why are you not doing it? Well, I'm too busy or I'm you know or I'm just afraid. I don't… okay, well… why are you afraid to go do it? You only got a new gal doing this stuff first right now, and she's really good that sometimes she is new, and so we get to that point, and I'm like, ‘I'll go with you.’ Right? It's not that hard.
So, solutions, but I think the action is kind of left out, and I think people just going to get doing something enough… but he is one of my favorites right now. I feel like everything that guy says, I've been saying in my head for the past 20 years. He just making money out of it now, and it's like, stop talking and get moving, and I think that's a big… this profession with what we have, there's so many people. I mean, that don't use it, that like, the possibilities for being successful are infinite. I just don't see how anybody couldn't beyond, if you just put your head down, put a little bit of work in upfront, cared enough and that's a big one there that we haven't brought up yet is this isn't a job. I mean, if you're coming into chiropractic, I think because you wanted a good job and a good pay, like…
I mean, I think that's out there, but like to have your own place, and to do that or to be an associate, like in my instance or similar. It's going to be hard because my most successful associates are those who love what we do. You know I mean? Like, they have that servant mentality, and what drives them every day is like, what I want to find the next Mary Smith who had multiple sclerosis, and heal these problems, and we helped her, and she's living her life better now because her atlas is corrected, like having that be the driver, not I want to make a hundred and twenty five thousand dollars a year, and have this house, and that's kind of be going to be my comfort zone. That just doesn't speak to me, and I just don't think it speaks to most of the people at you, if you'd interviewed them. They're highly successful in our profession. I don't think that's the answer you get. I think you get the previous one, which would be more like, I'm out there to find the next person whose life is going to get changed for what we do, and that is what drives the hustle for me. There are a lot of things I could do for money. Probably, a lot more money than we make with this. Although, we do well, but there's not much... I don't think could have a similar effect on humanity unity than you do with this, and that's pretty cool, and not many people have that not only people can go to a job every day and say like, I made a difference in somebody's life.
Dr. Davis: Exactly.
Dr. Wolff: Yeah.
Dr. Davis: Even with what we do with our marketing agency and work with upper cervical doctors all over, I'm always talking to my team, it's all about the sick and suffering people. Our job is to reach sick and suffering people all over the world, connect them with upper cervical doctors that can help them. Alright, that's our focus, sick and suffering people. Like you said, finding the next person out there that sick and suffering doesn't know about upper cervical. That's what drives us and like you said, that's what drives the most successful doctors, right? If it's about the money, you may be…
Dr. Wolff: Having a job…
Dr. Davis: Having a successful at a certain point, but you won't be ultimately successful, right? You won't have the impact that we really want to make with upper cervical around the world, if it's is about the money, right? Money is a by-product for doing good work, for serving people well, and so you talked about executing when it comes to even like your staff meetings, your team meetings when you're you guys have projects, you have things that are happening, the things that you want to accomplish, having a next action associated with that, and that's being followed up on, and all that type of thing. What are some other ways that you see the importance of execution either with the way that you work with your patients or anything else when it comes to your practice?
Dr. Wolff: Oh well, I think that being all of that stuff serves in the patient's, I think that speaking, I guess speaking that’s retention. I think one thing I also, not just talking about new patients, but retaining people, like we have a… for those that don't know what PVA is our patient visit average. That's part of your chiropractic algebra stats that basically says, that's the number of times you can expect to see a patient in a lifetime in your office. So, you get that number by dividing your total visits by your patients, right? So, how long are you keeping them in? I think a pretty good PVA for an upper cervical practice or a really good one is about forty. Okay, and I think right now, I probably say, it’s about 45, and so, do I think overall that that's really great? No, but like it's good for what we have right now, and I think it would be great if that number for all of us was a hundred, two hundred, but it isn't, which the reality of it is, we're still fighting that battle, but having putting the time in, and then execution to take the time to do a really thorough report of findings with a patient, right? Like, it's going to make a difference for them. Like, they're going to get chiropractic. They're going to get your office rather than just taking x-rays and being like, ‘Well, your atlas is out. Meet me in room 1, and we're going to get you adjusted.’ Like, they don't even know what's going on, and yeah, it's working and it's confrontational. You got to sit there with them for a half hour and go over everything and discuss their x-rays and show them maybe the curve or any degeneration or other subluxation, and what you're going to do? And answer tough questions like, ‘Any problems with your plan of care, right? Having plans of care that they have to follow, be the doctor, and also when you throw that plan of care out there, that's confrontational. They might say no. What do you do then? Or whether you find out why? Money, your time or who knows what, but that's all a big deal and I think practicing loosely leads to trouble down the road.
Practicing tightly and having things with things and steps that you do for all of your things, and it's done repetitively, consistently, concisely leads to success, and it sometimes isn't easy, but it's worth it because you can get a practice, like I have now after 19 years, and like, I don't have to do much marketing in this office at all anymore. It kind of markets itself.
We've got 7,000 files and I'm seeing thousand people we've seen over the years. It’s spinal screenings or health fairs or I mean this whole area, and you become the guy.
So, I hope that answered what you were asking me, but I think as far as execution the practice, I really… and doing new patient talk. A lot of people like to skip that one, taking an hour out once a week or once or twice a month to explain to your patients what is chiropractic? What is upper cervical chiropractic? What is subluxation? I mean yes, you've covered it with them, and you'd be like, ‘Why are you went over that with them and the report of findings, but like how much does that do they retain. I mean they're only going to retain 5-10% of everything you say.’ So, the more you say that, that's if we're lucky. The more you say that stuff, the more they're going to get it. Next thing you know, you got a patient coming in going, ‘Doc, I'm a little sore today but I think it's maybe retracing,’ like those are the people you want to hug. You're like, wow. You heard what I said, and it wasn't by mistake. It's because we gave him the Koren pamphlet. We went over. We sat down and went over the retreat cycles, a healing script, and the cycle healing chart, and we explained to them that they might have retracing. I just had a lady the other they come in after her first adjustment. I had some emotions, and I cried, and I read the pamphlet about the retracing, and I think it's retracing. I'm like, that's what it is more than likely, right?
And so, that person understands already vitalism and kind of what we're doing here, not completely, but they get it enough to where she's going to probably be like, I would highly bet, she's going to be a lifetime patient here. And so, if I didn't do that stuff, she might have those things, and be like, ‘What did he do to me?’ And leave.
So, those are all kinds of things, and you got to think about where the patients are at. Not everybody's at innate intelligence, and I want to have my own mental impulse. Express that 100% up through my cells tissues and organs, like I mean I haven't had one person in my office in 19 years walk through the front door and tell me that. In an ideal world that I know we loved, it's great. Not even is my neck whatever.
Dr. Davis: Right, and I think something else you said a few times here is, consistently executing has been a key part of your success, right? That's like you said, doing patient orientation or a health care class or taking the time to do a good report of findings, and all those kind of things. A lot of times I see docs that will, they'll do those things early on or they’ll do those things as they're building their practice, but a certain point they stop doing the things that made them successful in the first place and then they realize or then they look back into like, why aren't I successful anymore? Why does my practice gone down? And a lot of it's because they weren't consistent in their execution, right?
Dr. Wolff: Yeah, exactly. I mean yeah, you get too busy to do things right. What a noble idea that… I mean, I'm not perfect either. There are things that we go through and I've been in and out of practice over those years sometimes, and more associates, something like, whatever happened to whatever this is, that ear thing, I'm like, ‘Wow! That must have worked so well that we just decided not to do it anymore.’ Yeah, like one thing that we kind of fall off here and there, is we after our patients have the first adjustment, we have the doctor call them at the house after we're done they're seeing patients for that day, and check up on because we give them their kind of their do's and dont's before they leave. So, we just want to call them and say, ‘Hey! is Judy there? Yes Judy. Hey! Judy, this is Dr. Wolff, just checking and see how you're doing after adjustment.’ ‘Oh, I'm doing great. Thanks for calling.’ And then, let's say they had a car accident, they were swaying or could you use the ice like I asked you to, ‘Yeah, I did.’ ‘How you feeling?’ ‘I'm pretty sore.’ ‘Oh, I remember I said that might happen,’ or they might say, ‘ I feel really good,’ and of course you're going to say, ‘I remember I said that could happen because we cover, you might feel better same or different because you might,’ and so that's an opportunity to just be validated through whatever they say, and then you're calling them when they might be a dinner or have them of course these days I don't know how many people actually dinner together anymore, but like at a time where the family might be together. They might be with other people. They might be like, ‘Well, who was that?’ ‘That was my chiropractor, Dr. Wolff.’ ‘Oh, why you go in there?’ Well, I have…. And now you've got an opportunity that they're talking about you, right?
And so, that's small stuff, that's huge, and what we're talking about is it's easy to just be like, ‘Oh, you know, I'm not going to make that call’ or the front desk doesn't put it out there or you don't grab the slips because they come in slips, and they put their name and their phone number, and the doctors are supposed to grab them as in they were driving home or calling on the cellphone, and doing those calls.
So, and it works so well, and those people remember that stuff. I've had patients, ‘Remember that when you called me after my first adjustment? That was so great.’ And how many people think that they even do that.
And so, it's easy to get out of synch but if you have slipping and checking. If we're slipping and checking and adjusting, we might as well be slipping and check in business, right? And we can't see and help people if we're not business successful, if we don't know how to manage patients, if we don't know how to educate them properly, if we don't know how to do all… if you don't do these things then like, we're not really helping them, and if we're just getting them in and we're losing them, are we really helping them? I mean, I don't know. I mean, yeah, you corrected their atlas for once or twice or whatever but like, what about the rest of their life?
Dr. Davis: Exactly. So, this has been awesome. I really appreciate this and I just wanted to give you a chance to talk about. I know that you do have some opportunities for students or for some new docs out there that might be listening, and so just wanted to give you a chance to talk a little bit about those opportunities.
Dr. Wolff: Yeah. So, we're opening, like I mentioned earlier a new satellite office in the Bothell area of Washington. So, Dr. Ben Lin who's been with me for a couple years is leaving the main clinic to go over, and make that her baby, and so I'm going to be hiring one or two new associates currently right now.
So, basically people that want to come in and make a difference doing upper cervical, we do Blair and I've been doing it like I said for 19 years. I teach these guys the x-rays. I teach them the adjusting. We pay for any of the seminars they need to go to get further stuff. I'm not Tom Forest. So, you sometimes you got to get them to go see those guys too, and it's good for them to get other doctors, and would not go to the Blair conference, but yeah. So, it's an opportunity to work in here with me. Learn how to run a highly profitable, high-volume Blair Chiropractic Upper Cervical Clinic, low stress, how to market, how to manage financial stuff so as training from all ends. Like I said, I do put invest a lot of time into my associates. It's a win-win. So, our contracts set up in a way where, if my associate is successful, then I'm going to be successful. And if my associates not successful then I'm not going to be successful. So, it's it has to be a win-win. So, it really makes the associate put time in and it makes me put time in and be available for them. So, I often hear a lot of docs be like, ‘Oh, I'm getting an associate. So now, I can take vacation and I can be gone all the time.’ If you know there's that too, but I think in the beginning especially for a while, getting a new associate is actually more work, and it really should be for the head doctor more work because you really owe it to this person to put the time in with them to train them and mentor them, and then of course the reward would be that yet, you want to take a vacation with your family that you got somebody there to see your patients too that you can trust because you train them properly too, right? So, you can go away and not have your whole clinic leave.
So, yeah and of course the options with that are learn and we like to have at least a two-year commitment, but there's opportunities for more offices I would like to open probably 10 to 15 more Upper Cervical Blair clinics in the next 10 years. So, finding people to do that or learn and stay. I need people to stay in the main office too and work. So, there's all kinds of opportunities currently and like I said, roughly about one or two right now would be what I'm looking for.
Dr. Davis: Awesome, and we'll have a link in the show notes to Dr. Wolff’s clinic for you guys to be able to, if you're interested in working with this incredible system that he's got in place up in the Seattle area, you can connect with them through their website, and give the opposite call and talk with them as well, and so again Dr. Wolff, thank you so much for your time today. We really appreciate it. Thank you for bringing as much value to our audience, and I just wish you all the best.
Dr. Wolff: Thanks Bill. Thanks for having me.